Have said that, of course, there are examples of interesting exceptions, and I think in the future, authors and publishers of all kinds of literature will put more conscious thought into how a digital instantiation of a given work could be distinct from its print cousin (and that the reverse is also true — in fact the process of turning a piece of electronic literature into a work of print literature is equally interesting).

I went to a new poetry venue here in Victoria the other evening to listen to my friend Cliff Syringe. The new venue is in a coffee shop. It could be interesting to see if I can hook into the Upgrade and do a monthly event at the coffee shop on computer art. I did a poetry event for a couple of years some years ago in a different, bigger coffee shop.

Not sure what’s here in Victoria concerning computer art apart from at the University. But a downtown thing is always good. If there isn’t much downtown it ain’t much of a town.

But of course the net has been so cool since the mid nineties for showing work and seeing what others are up to. And it still is. But something downtown would be nice also.

Looking at my web stats, most of my visitors come from Google and other search engines. I expect there’s a lot of students and so on, but I would expect the majority are just regular folks in their dens or at work. I would think there is quite an audience from the general public but it’s invisible, like we tend to be in the traditional coffeshop and performance and lecture venues.

I have to make a step back to explain this. I’m an author of electronic/computational literature (and art – but lately that aspect is mostly in past tense). I’m a programmer. At my day-job I work in IT department of biggest Slovene publishing house taking care of internet related affairs (even if only partly, e-books included). Even though I’m not active as an author of theoretical work I find the theory to be crucial for my creative practise as well as for my professional life. I have one foot in creative practice, one in academia and one foot in commercial publishing world (which should make me a proper monster

In the commercial world the “electronic literature” is understood in specific way that can be summarised as monetising of the book-as-a-pdf-alike-format using devices that resemble a book but offer less to the reader. Nothing new since the 90s but Nook looks better than early attempts of the platform and iPhone seems to get momentum on e-reading/monetising (as well as offering interesting set of sensors for a programming capable author). And there is lots of PR that will made concept thought by people around ELO and similar institutions even harder to get across to. E-literature is taken over by business – that’s what I meant by the end of it. Of course there is all but a lack of creative and explorative pieces of e-literature authors – still mostly inside the academia or associated venues far from the eyes of the mainstream that has own interpretation of electronic literature.

It’s this – quite recent in my opinion – context that makes me think of more precise definition of e-literature. Or I should – as suggested in discussion – just opt in for a specific subset of the wide-embracing e-literature description. But if so I think I would loose the important historic context of electronic literature (or would I not?).

And to add to that: how does digitized historical literature in digital library (I welcome this greatly) differ from digital born literature according to ELOs definition? How does digital born literature using only interfaces differ from computational based one (I do this)? I guess these questions were not so relevant some time ago but with new players on the field I think these questions are crucial.

And I would never say that writing electronic literature itself is a novelty. I think, however, for many people it IS a novelty. Whenever I teach my electronic literature course, students first fixate on the stuff that makes loud noises and moves a lot. Next, they want to bring examples of any interesting thing they’ve seen online, and call it electronic literature. Only after that initial fascination wears down a little, do they focus on reading more closely, on re-reading, on listening to the artist. And, since I am usually presenting all of my students with their first taste of electronic literature, I am just guessing that this is true across the board–even for literary folks and programmers–that their first brush with electronic literature is going to be skewed by the ways it differs from what they are used to (I remember reading Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas for the first time…. and thinking everything I wrote had to be like that… putting on its style like a costume, and never realizing that I liked it for its honesty). But after they get a little used to it, the things they read and write, and the ways they read and write, are going to take them closer to what’s literary about electronic literature.

We are really at the beginning of a new wave of literary production that will probably have a history like that of the sonnet or the novel… aesthetically responding to a whole host of technical, educational, cultural, political, etc. changes… over decades, if not centuries. And while there are tons of amazing things today already, what would it be like if it were nourished and cultivated around the world. And, I can’t help but asking, what will electronic literature look like when it is old? In 300 years, what will be read alongside Shakespeare? In a sense, these kinds of speculative experiments of mine are meaningless…. but I still find them fun. I am not an artist. And I would be very uncomfortable deciding which work is “the best.” But there will be, there already are, works that people will come back to again and again, that will form our ideas about life and culture. Someday people will study the dead computer languages just so they can read poems.

I just think there is so far to go. And we are really at the dawn of something exciting.

Jim, yes, “we need to infiltrate the computer science departments as much as the english departments or creative writing departments or the media arts departments…” and we need to infiltrate the non-academic world much more too. Correct me if I’m wrong (which I could well be) but there doesn’t seem to have been as many collective attempts to get e-literature in front of a ‘general audience’ as there have been academic conferences, seminars, etc. (granted that some of these events also attract members of the general public, e.g. e-Poetry 09 in Barcelona). In the UK there has been this if:book initiative – http://fictional-stimulus.ning.com/ – which was a valiant attempt, but I suspect we need to do a lot more live readings/performances to raise the profile.

What is it ? Where is it?

As I state at the outset – “I know the answers to both questions are extremely complex and perhaps ultimately subjective” which is why I state ‘Christine must be correct’ – my point, in reference to your post was that the original term ‘electronic literature’ in isolation, for me, and maybe only me, must include/embrace/allow fun, funny, comedic or humorous work, if it supposedly signals or suggests what is accessible/present in print ‘literature’ – which means using the term ‘electronic literature’ or ‘digital literature’ to describe that kind/type of work without recourse to contraction or informality.

but it’s also valuable for forms of art to achieve their own definition. this doesn’t mean that they replace the meaning of ‘electronic literature’ with their own meaning. but that they achieve their own definition. it isn’t a matter of warfare.

for instance, i am basically most interested in ‘computer art’. by that i mean art in which the computer is crucial in the creation, display, and appreciation of the art. whether it is literary or visual or sonic or some combination or whatever. programming is crucial to this sort of art.

electronic literature includes computer art with a literary dimension. but those involved in such art need to make their own publications, for instance, where this sort of work can be showcased on its own terms.

artists involved in it can still of course publish in publications of ‘electronic literature’.

literary computer art has as much in common with non-literary computer art as it does with electronic literature.

but there’s not a lot of literary computer art around. not too many poet programmers.

we need to infiltrate the computer science departments as much as the english departments or creative writing departments or the media arts departments…

mind you, i’m as close to any of them as i am to the sanitation department of public works here in victoria.